Andualem Aragie was the Vice President and Press Secretary for Unity for Democracy and Justice (UDJP) party and he has two children named Nolawi and Ruth from his wife Dr. Selam Aschalew. He was serving a life sentence on terrorism charges and was imprisoned on September 14, 2011. It was his second time in prison. A couple of weeks ago he was pardoned by the government and set free from the prison in Kality.
He argues that the current political protests in the country will stop if discussions occur between the government and other stakeholders both here and abroad. Capital’s Reporter Tesfaye Getnet talked to him at his home about his time in prison and the current situation in Ethiopia.

Capital:  What was it like to be in prison for six years?

Andualem Aragie: The years in prison were long and were filled by many ups and downs. It was a harsh environment.

Thanks to God my strong wife properly took care of our two children who had to grow up without a father during the years I stayed in prison. She visited me regularly and brought me food and other things like she did when I was imprisoned for two years for the things I did for UDPJ in the 2005 election.

And my two kids visited me so often by challenging the gravel road that brings you to the prison. The treatment I got in prison was very bad, much worse than my pervious prison life. In ’Meaklwai’  Prison I was put in a  dark room in Kality for two and a half years with 18 people who had committed terrible crimes.

The room we were in was small. There were no mattresses we slept on an uneven floor. Soon I developed a problem with my back bone, which is a medical condition where a person feels as if they or the objects around them are moving when they are not. I did not receive the necessary medical treatment for this.   Prisoners would often fight which was disturbing. Eventually I was transferred to the so called White House cell for eight months. I was housed with the journalist Eskinder Nega.

Then I was moved to another ground room with no window. My cellmate was Melaku Fenta, the former director of the Ethiopian Revenue and Customs Authority.

I began to experience problems with my mental health. I wrote two books in this room which were sold on the market along with many poems.

Capital: The Government says they are releasing people to help foster sustainable peace what is your opinion about this?

Andualem: I believe that the releasing of prisoners did not come from the will of the government but the pressure of the people. However, it is a positive starting point. I see that the pressure from the mass have been a contributing factor in convincing the government to change some things.

It is a positive start but it is a spark not a full light. There is always a struggle to get a government powered by its people. If a country is not governed based on the will of its people it does not matter if you build roads, railways, apartments or other infrastructure because people are great when they take ownership of their nation. They want to keep their dignity. The recent protests were a testimony that people were asking for their rights. They were asking for democracy. However, I strongly advise people that they should not burn buildings, damage property or act violently when asking for change. With peaceful dialogue radical change can come.

Capital: How did you feel when you found out UDPJ was fragmented?

Andualem: I don’t deny that I felt sorrow. The problem stems from the party’s weakness and outside pressure. However, it is a natural process. We must ask ourselves, however, if the playing field is level. After the 2005 election the government did not mind the opposition until it gained traction. It is a common practice by the government to oppress, jail and disturb when opposition parties get attention. Now, however, many young activists are asking for democracy which makes me happy. Like I have written before if the government does not allow opposition parties to join the public square then people should work without parties and that is what we have seen.

Capital: Do you feel the PM’s recent resignation will make a difference?

Andualem: It is not the first time a PM has resigned. In the late 1960’s Aklilu Habtewold also resigned during the time of Hailelselassie. I don’t know if it will do much or not if you do not make systemic changes you usually end up with the same issues. For example the late PM Meles Zenawi is gone but we have similar problems. We need an inclusive discussion where everyone can participate regardless of their political views.

Capital:  What do you think about the state of emergency?

Andualem: It is a paradox for me. The government should open wide discussions with the people to understand the reasons behind the protest, the logic behind the unrest. Without providing a solution applying a state of emergency is moving the people from the dark to another dark place. It is about time to call all stakeholders who are concerned about their country to provide solutions.

Capital: What about the ethnic tensions?

Andualem: In the country there are several parties who want democracy and now they are working together which is very important for Ethiopia. It is very bad to have an ethnic mindset, we must work together for our country. Dictatorship is inhuman but racism is worse. We must fight this kind of barbarism to make a peaceful country. We are not human if we attack somebody based on the languages they speak or the tribe they belong to. When we slaughter an animal there is pity in our heart so attacking people is wrong. One hundred years ago our fore fathers who spoke different languages and came from different areas and fought foreign aggression by uniting themselves and they did not attack each other and after 100 years we who are living in modern times must not attack our brothers and sisters. We should love one another.

Capital: What do you think might happen if the current unrest continues?

Andualem: People want to live a better life with a better system. The government should accept the reality and come up with wise solutions. I am sure that if the government is responsive to people then people will not protest. We have a great opportunity to write the history of Ethiopian democracy.

We had great civilizations in Axum and other fantastic histories in Adwa and Lalibila but we don’t have yet a peaceful power transition and the current government has the opportunity to do that. It is about to do big things like Lemma Megersa who is doing good things for the country and other ruling party leaders should follow his example.

Capital: Why do you think there is no a strong opposition party?

Andualem: Frankly speaking most of the opposition leaders give more priority to self-centered thinking  instead of the nation, if we work on a national agenda we can come together but we divide each other and the reason for this is self-centered thinking. We cannot create a strong   nation by continuously being divided. We should be inspired by those that have sacrificed before us and do things to benefit the next generation. We should not care about our status as long as we are serving the people.

Capital: Do you think the Diaspora needs to get more involved?

Andualem: We all are working for our country. I appreciate the work of the Diaspora but we need to work together more.

Capital: What do you plan to do now?

Andualem: I spent many years in prison so I don’t have enough information about all the aspects of the country. I want to read books, meet my friends and understand the atmosphere. Then I will announce what I will do for my beloved Ethiopia. I want to spend a lot of time with my children who did not get their father’s love when I was in prison.

Eskinder Nega was the editor of the newspapers Asqual, Satnaw, Menlike, and Etopis. He has been given the nickname ‘iron man’ and has been recognized for his passionate writing.  He won the International Press Institutes 69th World Press Freedom Hero award and the Pen of Freedom Award, and the Barbara Goldsmith Freedom to Write Award.  In the 1980s Eskinder moved to the US and after graduating high school he went to a University where he studied political science and economics. He then came back. He spent six years in prison until he was pardoned recently. Captial’s reporter Tesfaye Getnet talked with Eskinder about his experience and thoughts. Excerpts; 

Capital: What is it like to be able to walk freely?

Eskinder Nega: My prison life in Kality falls into two parts. There were the two years I spent with the general population. I lived with many prisoners.  I had access to a library and a place of worship. However the bad part about this area was the poor sanitation conditions. The toilets were always dirty, the beds were not clean because the rooms were overcrowded. You had to jump over sleeping prisoners to get to the toilet because there was no space in the cell. The place reminded me of the Gulag prisons in Siberia that was built during Stalin’s time in Russia. Then I was transferred to a dark room for four and half years because of articles I wrote, which were published in the New York Times and Guardian. They asked me to stop writing articles in prison but I refused. When they moved me to the small, dark room I was denied pens paper and books. They would not even let me read the Bible. This was irrational and I will never forget it.

Capital: The government’s point of view seems to be that media outlets have printed fake news or lack ethics and that it leads to unrest. Do you think such claims are true?  

Eskinder: What is true journalism? It is a controversial point. I believe that opinion articles  are  also part of freedom of expression  and it is an important part of any country’s media. A Journalist is not an echo of the ruling party as they wish. They would say true journalism is reporting what the government says. Of course getting their perspective is one element of journalism but it is necessary to go beyond that and seek the truth. Reporting should go beyond what political parties say. Writing opinion pieces is part of journalism as well.

Capital: Why do you think the ruling party is opposed to opinions?  

Eskinder: Media opinion is not well done in Ethiopia in general. The ruling party does not like civic associations. You can find a report which says Ethiopia is one of the least fertile atmospheres for civic associations which prevents labor unions from forming groups.

Capital: What gave you a passion for writing?

Eskinder:  I’ve worked in media for a long time. The more I wrote the more passionate I became about writing. I have a natural gift for writing. I am also passionate about seeing Ethiopia become a democratic country. I am not saying Ethiopia should be like the US but it upsets me to see places like Benin, Botswana and Malawi become more democratic than Ethiopia especially since we have one of the proudest histories of any African country.

Capital: How would you evaluate the Ethiopian media?

Eskinder: Governments have criticized media everywhere including the US and UK, look at Donald Trump.  Developmental journalism as it is called does play a positive role by emphasizing the good in the country. However I believe media does need to act as a watchdog and point out other ways of doing things otherwise it is not playing its role.

Capital: What can be done to help journalists conduct better research and find better facts?

Eskinder: Let’s start with me. My choice is to be a journalist but I can’t do that in here because of the system.  I just can’t!! The task of a journalist is to chronicle events but the system opposes them. If you do not report things as they want they torture and arrest you.

Here a journalist must do their media work while at the same time trying to advocate for a more open environment. The reason opinion based journalism is flourishing is because of vast oppression. If Ethiopia become more democratic, the country will have best media and become an example for everyone in Africa.

Capital: What do you think about the PM’s resignation?

Eskinder: The Ethiopian political problem will be solved if the current ruling party holds negotiations with legal political parties in here and abroad without any pre conditions.  If the PM’s resignation lead us in this way that is fine, in other words we have to see what the next steps will be.

Capital: What are your thoughts about the new state of emergency?

Eskinder: It may handle problems temporarily but  like I said  there must be negotiations between parties and the government. I agree with the US embassy’s stand on the state of emergency.

Capital: What do you think about the current unrest?

Eskinder: There are two doors, one that will lead us to trouble and one that will take us to peace and stability. I expect the second will come because many people have and are sacrificing to get us there.

We should learn from the example of South Africa about how to handle ethnic clashes. In the late 1980s the world had given up on South Africa. The clashes which had erupted among white and black or other clans and tribes were way worse than what we are experiencing now. The dictatorship actually made tribes more suspicious of one another. Democracy helped alleviate tribalism in fact if we look at other places like Nigeria and Ghana in the 1980s the two major stumbling blocks for democracy were corruption and tribalism. When they increased democracy they decreased tribalism.

Capital: One common criticism is that the other parties are not strong enough to govern what do you think about this?

Eskinder: If you look at the US and Malawi the way the democracy manifests itself is different. People should set up parties because they are going to, for example, come up with different policies on land and investment while still striving for democracy. It shouldn’t be because they can’t get along.

Capital: Why do you think it is so hard for democracy to come to Ethiopia despite its spectacular history?  

Eskinder:  It is a difficult question to answer. The Czech Republic and the Croatia have more democracy than the Russia and the Japan has more democracy than China and Egypt is older but Tunisia has better democracy than Egypt. We need academic research. We also need thinkers and writers not only in Ethiopia but also Russia, China and Egypt to ponder this question.

Capital: What is your opinion about members of the Diaspora?

Eskinder: They have helped advocate democracy in Ethiopia. They are struggling a lot too. There is an extremist point of view but that happens everywhere even in places like Scandinavian countries.

Capital: What will your next job be?

Eskinder: Soon after I was released from prison I said: ‘Justice for Democracy’. I will strive for democracy and I will continue to write.

The Nick name Abebe Kesto is more popular than his legal name Kinfemicheal Debebe. For the last 26 years he has been working with Ethiopian Democratic Party  and the Unity for Democracy and Justice (UDJP) or Kinjit but before he was arrested six years ago he was actively engaged and lead the All Ethiopian Democracy Party. A week ago he was released from Kality. “Politics, freedom for democracy is my life, I can’t be out of it,” is something he often says. Capital’s Reporter Tesfaye Getnet went to his home to learn more about his prison life and the current Ethiopian political situation. 

Capital: What was the last six years in prison like?

Kinfemicheal Debebe: When I was first arrested the security officer took my clothes off in the street near my village. I was ashamed because I did not expect it. It is true we called for a demonstration but the government said they allowed opposition parties to work in here. Then I stayed in a small police station and the charge which was filed against me was that the demonstration we called was not legal. Later, however the charge was changed to terrorism. I went to Maeklawi prison for two months. I was not permitted to see my family or lawyer. I received food from the outside but I did not know who brought me the food. Then I spent the rest of the time in Kality which was filled with many bad situations.

Capital:  Do you think releasing prisoners will help the situation?

Kinfemicheal: We got out from prison not because of the good heart of the ruling party but with the pressure from our people that challenged the government’s long rigid stand. If the government had a good heart it would have created a better platform for democracy and freedom of expression instead it narrowed the space. The recent deep reform is a positive step but it does not negate how it has handled opposition parties i.e. intentionally blocking them. Releasing prisoners by itself is not the solution. The government should hold negotiations with opposition parties with a pure heart and come up with a true solution and should listen to people’s questions to make a long lasting peace in Ethiopia. If you see the recent protest, it is not lead by parties, it is led by people who ask for better democracy, justice, economic independence and life situation.  The protests should show the opposition parities the importance of working together.

Capital: Some says the fragmented protests across the country should come together in a peaceful way to make change in the democracy building process. How do you see the current protest?

Kinfemicheal: Though the protest came after many economic and political problems it is not well organized. As Lenin said those who are denied justice will organize and the organized will win but in here one protest happens in one region today and the other after one week in another place and this way of doing things makes it difficult to bring change to the country. The struggle should be organized. It should have a leader, plan, strategy and agenda. I see that unlike the 2005 election parties are not leading the current struggle and sometimes I see that ethnic based attacking is occurring in the protest which is dangerous for Ethiopia because it disturbs its peace among the people which has been kept for many years. Some people are forced to move and they end up begging for food and money in their own country. It is painful to see people hurt in one region because of the language they speak, the culture they follow. The fighting between groups or borders goes against our religions and cultures, norms and ethics. We should avoid the tribalism mindset because it is the opium of the society. It is a pain for us for those who struggle, and were arrested and tortured to make good things for Ethiopia.

Capital: How can opposition parties become stronger? 

Kinfemicheal: We have to look one thing before we answer the question. Can we blame the parties for all the challenges they face? No, there are outside pressures from the government. Of course a party should overcome inside and outside challenges by properly organizing its members with clear policy guidance. And if it does not do that it is not a party. Working together in the 2005 election with two strong parties made by Kinjit and Hibret was a good start. When I was in jail 33 parties called for a demonstration that was so good but they are not singing together now. I believe that opening a party is not like the commodity you get on the market, it is a big idea to administer a country. I don’t believe in creating a new party every week to fight for democracy. The thing we share is so much bigger than our differences.

To reiterate though we cannot get strong opposition parties if we jail people for being part of the opposition.

Capital: Do you think the new state of emergency will stop the unrest? 

Kinfemicheal: The government should negotiate with all the parties that are operating here and abroad and should hold wide public discussions to get better solutions. The government is leading negotiations for South Sudan opposition parties but what about here?

Capital: What about the Diaspora?

Kinfemicheal: I appreciate their help but again we must be united and should fight for change here. For example in the 2005 election the problem came about when local parties were not unified.

Capital: What will your next job be?

Kinfemicheal: Well I want to start a family since I don’t have one and I want to continue to work in a party and help to change my country for a better future.